The Biggest Risk Isn't Failure, It's Regret with Tara Jade Fox

The biggest risk isn't failing. It's realizing you never gave yourself the chance to truly live.

In this episode of ICONIC, Jennifer Leigh is joined by award-winning actor, speaker, and performance coach Tara Jade Fox for a conversation about courage, fear, and what it means to fully embrace life.

After a defining moment at just eleven years old left her with the sting of regret, Tara made a promise to herself that would shape the rest of her life: to chase the chills. Together, Jennifer and Tara explore why fear isn't something to eliminate, how regret can become one of life's greatest teachers, and why the moments that make us feel most alive are often waiting just beyond our comfort zone.

This conversation is about choosing courage over comfort, embracing uncertainty, and creating a life you'll never have to wonder "what if?" about.

In this conversation, you’ll hear:

• The childhood moment that inspired Tara's "Chase the Chills" philosophy

• Why regret can be a more powerful motivator than fear

• How to recognize the moments that are calling you to grow

• Why living fully means choosing courage before certainty

If this episode resonates with you, follow ICONIC and leave a review.

Connect with Tara:

• Instagram: @tarajadefox

• Website: tarajadefox.com

• IMDb: Tara Jade Fox 

Connect with Jen:

• Read Iconic Magazine®: becomingiconic.co/magazine

• Join House of Her, our exclusive membership community: becomingiconic.co/houseofher

• Watch on YouTube: @theICONICmagazine

• Follow on Instagram: @iconicmagazine__

Transcript

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This week's episode of ICONIC is with someone who is very iconic. She is an award-winning actor, soon-to-be author, and someone who deeply appreciates noticing all the details sensory-wise, but also from an experience. Tara Jade Fox is on the ICONIC show today, and she shares around how she had a moment at 11 years old that developed this deep sense of wishing she had seized an opportunity and didn't. So much so that just four years later, still as a child, gets up on an Olympic-sized platform and jumps off the edge. It's the type of conversation that will inspire you to really pay attention to whether you are living on the edge of your life, whether you are chasing the chills, as she calls it. And it's something that's going to awaken you, mess your hair up a little bit, to stop going through days in a mundane way and instead experience adventure and soak in every last moment. I can't wait for you to hear this episode. Hi, Tara. Hello. We're here. We're here. This has been an anticipated conversation for me because we've had these interactions where you've shared these points of view, lived experiences, that have this specialness to them. And that's where I just want to go right away. You have a saying. What is it? Chase the chills. Chase the chills. And I want to just start with that. I want to start with the fact that, first of all, you have it tattooed on your body. So it means something to you. I'd love to know the meaning, but I'd also love to know what does that mean for somebody listening in today? Yeah, absolutely. I first heard it and the second and I heard it, I got the chills. And it just settled in my system. I'm like, that is why I do everything that I do. That is what drives me. What pushes me to be better is chasing those chill moments. And what I like to say, how I think everybody should use it, is chills are your best metric for knowing you are operating at your highest potential, at your most magnetic, at your most unforgettable way of being, because when you have the chills, you're fully alive. And if you want to give other people the chills, if you want to be memorable to somebody else, you can't give what you don't have. So if you don't have the chills, you can't give them. Oh, that's so good. Where are we going to go from here? Because I feel like that in itself, just everybody needs to chew on that for a minute. So I call them God bumps, which is really interesting because it feels divine for me. It feels like that knowing that spirit that's like yes. It's that full body yes people sometimes say to me what does a full body yes feel like? That's what a full body yes feels like to me. It's like when your body responds to something that you have these God bumps go up your arms and down your back. So chasing the chill, when did you first experience that? What was your first at least memory of experiencing that? The one that instantly comes to mind, this wasn't the first time, but I think I was, gosh, maybe around 15. And I went to a pool with my cousins and there was a platform, not like the high dive, but like the Olympic level, super crazy. And I was like, oh, I'm going to do that. And so we stood in line and the line was long. And, you know, as you start watching people go up, your heart starts to like pound a little bit. And you're like, oh, am I sure? And we actually saw a kid at the top freeze and then walk all the way back down the ladder in front of everybody. And it was that moment I knew two things. One, I was not going to be walking back down that ladder in front of everybody. And two, I knew if I stopped, I would freeze. So every rung up the ladder, and it was a lot of them, I was like, just walk off the edge, just walk off the edge, just walk off the edge. And I took a deep breath at the top. I walked off the edge. And I remember how scary that was, how exhilarating that was, and the goosebumps I got afterwards. And going, oh, this is it. When you push yourself past that edge. You know, oftentimes the chills are on the other side of fear. And I was just, I don't know, every time I'm on a set and there's a character that demands something of me that I'm like, ooh, that's tight or here's the line. I know I have to cross the line because I want the chills. And more importantly, I had an experience young. When I was in an audition and I didn't do what I knew I could do. I came up to that line and went too much. And the drive home, I was like, Nope. Not doing that again. I've used it as fuel ever since. Every time I come up to that line, I'm like, I do not want to feel like 11-year-old Tara driving back home going, I knew I could have done better. So that was before you went off of the diving board. That was before the diving board. So that was the fuel. Oh, that's interesting. Yes. Yeah. That I used, that was also part of the fuel and just like, ooh, I can't not go home and having not jumped. You realized that fear held you back from something, an experience, an experience of yourself, an experience that, you know, an opportunity. And so that, like, literally anchored into you that when you had another scary moment, you thought, I'd rather be afraid and do it than not do it and always wonder what it would have been like. Yes. I love that. I use fear as fuel because it is some of the most potent fuel you can have. The dream is great and shiny and works most of the time but there are some days where we just can't motivate ourselves to do stuff or it's just too scary. In that case, get that nightmare breathing down the back of your neck, I promise you will move, because it's, I mean it's visceral. You can just [shudder] you know, you'll move. The chills though in my experience don't always come first. So it's not like I have the chills and then I have the confidence. Yes. It's that I took the confidence, so I got the chill. Is that how you would articulate it as well? Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I think there's also different types of chills. Because you can have chills just in a conversation where all of a sudden it's like, oh my gosh. Yeah. We're so on. It's like, oh. Yeah. That was like, I think we had a moment like that at Momentum. We did. We did. Yeah. So you have like those that just are spontaneous chills. Okay. Which are awesome. And then you have chills you have to fight for that are on the other side of fear. Okay. And those are that kind where you have to actually fight for the chills, fight for the right to have your chills. Yeah. And I think that's fun because that also is fuel because, you know I have to get over this fear. I have to make the jump, make the leap, to get to it. I think that is such a powerful message and thought for people listening in because often, I hear it, that when people don't feel totally "aligned", they call it, which I think is a very safe way of saying, I'm fearful. I don't have full confidence. And so it's easy to use the excuse of maybe I'm not aligned or maybe it's not my time. And so that fear is kind of manifesting itself in different forms for people that held them back from doing the very thing that is required for them to have the success, the chills, the moment, that defining moment of, oh my gosh, I did it. How does she overcome that fear? You've done it. I want to ask this question in two ways. How does she overcome the fear, but then for you and overcoming your fear was it that crucial moment of just feeling regret that you thought I'll never go there again? Was it that defining moment or has it just been a skill that you've honed over the time? Yes. Yes to both. Yes to both. Yes, it's definitely a, I remember how awful I felt in that moment and I'm like I don't want to go home, feeling that way again. Yeah. You know, it's like I've been there before, I know better, and I kind of use that. So if it is something where you know like the platform or you know a part, a character, an audition that I'm really nervous about you know whatever it is, I use that you know I sit for a moment in that nightmare space, that space where it's just like, what if I don't go big? Sit in that for a minute, how does it feel? Right. And that usually gets me to be like, yep, nope, I'm good. Let's just, I would rather be uncomfortable making the jump, doing the thing, than have to sit there and go, I knew I should have done that. I could have done more. I fear that the most in my life. Yes. Like, I fear not knowing what I could have been or could have done more than going for something and it potentially not working out. Because I just have, I just know innately, and people ask me this all the time. They're like, Jen, how come you just like, you do things and those things seem to work out? Well, they don't, like behind the scenes, it's not always as easy as it looks on the screen. But I just know that if it doesn't work or if I have a flop, I know for certain it's going to put me on the right path. It's going to be the trajectory, the catalyst to where I was meant to go. It's not always what I thought, but it'll always get me to where I'm supposed to go. But the fear of not knowing that has been a rattle in my spirit for most of my life. Do you have that? I don't know if everybody has that. I don't think they do. Do they not have it, but they can find it? Do they not have it, but they could build it? Or is it that they literally don't? I don't want to believe that they don't have it. I don't think that they don't have it. I think that most people, because I've thought about this a lot, actually, recently. I talked to my husband about it. And I'm like, you know, like in a video game, you have main characters, you have supporting characters, and then you have NPC characters, which are just non-player characters basically run by the computer. I mean, there's real actors that voice them and do things for them, but they're not like crucial to the story. You know, it might be Villager 3 that just is my only job as Villager 3 is to run up in your life and be like, watch out. The barn is on fire, you know, and that's my role in your video game. And I kind of wonder, it's not that Villager 3 couldn't all of a sudden, you know, become a main part of the story in Act 2, you know, in the video game, but I think Villager has to wake up to the fact that they can become a main character. And, yeah. What makes somebody a main character? They have to feel it, want it, see it. Would you agree? If I think of main character, that's going to look different for every single person. Yes. They're going to define that differently. Someone listening in could be like, I want my main character to be, I'm an exceptional, iconic stay-at-home mom. Yes. I don't have a ton of stay-at-home moms listening, but that could be her thing. Absolutely. It could be, I want to be the most exceptional coach in my industry. But how do they get to the point where they believe that and desire that more than staying safe. I feel like kind of like candles like fire they need to be around somebody that lights something with them, that gives them the chills, to go, oh that's possible? Yeah. And then start chasing it, find that thread, and just start pulling it and following it and following it until you find the tapestry that you were meant to weave. That's beautifully said. People will ask about belief. I believe personal belief is actually one of the key ingredients to success. You have to believe in yourself. And when you do, you'll make big investments. Yes. Both financially, time, consideration, effort. You will go out on the skinny branch. You'll blaze a new trail. You won't wait to look for somebody else who's doing what you want to do because it doesn't matter anymore. That personal belief has a sound. To me, I can hear it. I can smell it. I can taste it in somebody. But that doesn't always come first for many people. So I really like what you said. And I often talk about this in my own mentorship, that I love to pour belief into someone until they have that unshakable belief in themselves. And a lot of times we do need that advocate. We do need that person to see us with their own set of eyes to catch that flicker of light. Yeah, absolutely. What would you add to that? Or who's been that for you? Ooh, so many people. Yeah? Gosh, there's been some directors out in Hollywood that have said things to me at certain times that just is like, I do have this. You know, Daniel Amos has been definitely that for me. Haley has been that for me. And honestly, I think our conversation, you know at Momentum, you witnessed a really special moment you know in my upbringing. Because I'm so not grown up yet. That's the thing is sometimes it is somebody big that plays a really big role in your life, and sometimes it can be a stranger on a street like my driver. He goes, did you know in Hindi your name means star? Oh. And it's like yeah, thank you. Did you know that? I actually, I kind of forgot it, but I have heard that when I went on a big like name quest thing a long time ago. Amazing. Yeah. But just the fact that it was right now at this time, a completely random person, I do not know at all, you know, just says something. And that's the thing is I think it's, pay attention to the little things. You know, the chills can be a little thing that we just kind of don't even notice or like, oh, well, that was a fun moment. But it's like, no. Sometimes the biggest things come in the smallest moments. You know that's your body going pay attention. Pay attention. And you know what else it teaches me is teaches me the pause. Because what you just said, it's really easy in the small moments to have the chills and just keep going, whereas if you pay attention to the point of, celebrating, pouring out gratitude and pouring in gratitude, there's a moment where you remember when you have that feeling to just pause. It doesn't mean you have to pause for 10 minutes, but it's enough to, I find, I call them marker moments. I love creating marker moments. I think of my life as a map. And if you had a map, you're going to have these places you're going to stop and visit to get to the destination. And I find those are my moments, those markers on my path, on my map that define me in some way. Whether it was an acknowledgement, whether it was a success, whether it was a meeting of a new person. And so I feel like that's an important piece to what we're talking about here today is chase the chill. And then when you get it, stop the chase for a second and soak it in. Yes. Yeah. I think it's like, feel it, smell it, breathe it in, even if it's a fraction of a second, just to be like [inhale]. Because, also in a video game, I don't know if you've ever seen it, sometimes they'll light your path to where you need to go if you play it in, you know, easy mode. Like I like to play it. My husband's a really big gamer. I was going to say, it must be a part of your life. Yeah. Okay. No, but like easy mode is they'll do like this glittery, almost like pixie dust trail. Okay. So you know where to go. And I feel like if you can just breathe it in for a moment, it'll kind of illuminate where you need to go. But you have to breathe it in, like take it in for just a second to be like, I feel this. And I feel like if you do, you'll know where you need to go next. Kind of like the cookie crumbs. You know, somebody's leaving them for you to be like, hey, this way, over here. I got you. So are you afraid of anything? Is there still some things? Like if you even think right now and like sitting here together. Yeah. You have a bubbling, well, multiple careers, really. You have something coming out of the doors soon, so I'll let you announce that. But do you still find there's these moments of hesitation or resistance? Or do you feel like, you know what, this is actually something I've mastered in my life? Ooh. I really shy away from using mastery as a term because I'm like, I'm always learning. Okay. There's always another level past it. So even if I'm like, no, I'm not afraid to go all the way down, I feel like there's another level of I could loosen one more button. Okay. I like that. So I always believe there's another level. Even the best acting coaches and directors I've had are always in that philosophy, too. There's more to learn. I've never used this lens before. I'd love to try that. You know, there's always, and I think that's the thing that's fun about acting is you're going, there's more to learn. You know, life is huge and expansive and fun if you let it be. Right. If you let it be. That was an important point. Yes. So you have a book coming out. I do have a book coming out. Let's talk about that. Are you willing to share? I know it's a little early. But, you know, we are talking iconic here. So I would love to learn and kind of pivot the conversation around that. What's the theme of the book? Unforgettable is the title. And the subtitle, the working subtitle, is The Art of Connection. Okay. Because I believe it's basically taking my favourite acting techniques and hacks that we use on, like, the biggest movies in Hollywood. But you can use that in real life to connect better with people. Which I think everybody could use better at connecting. Whether it's just, hey, we're just going to have a little chat, make a new friend. Or whether it's sales, a business merger. Because you're not going to make every sale. You're not going to make every pitch, every friend, every merger. But what you can make is a friend. And what's important is we might not need each other right now. But what about in three months, three years? Did we make enough of a connection? Do we make enough of an impression that you remember who I am when you need me? And that's the game. So tell me, how does somebody become unforgettable? What's that first step? Ooh, well, my favourite one is the chills. Using the chills as the metric. If you can get to a place where you know how to get to a spot where you have the chills, give yourself the chills and then you give others chills by default. That reminds me of going into rooms that feel sometimes bigger than where you're at. I've had this conversation so much recently. I speak at a lot of events. Yeah. And one of the things I've noticed is a lot of times it's the same community kind of event hopping. And I love that it is such a deep community. And I can tell they're just so excited to get together again. But I'm like, you're not stretching yourselves. You're not immersing yourself into new rooms with new conversations, with new people, with new experience. And so we're just kind of like doing this thing that feels good. It's like getting together, but you don't necessarily have to buy a ticket to an event to get together. So that comes up for me around like what you were just saying of stretching yourself constantly. New rooms that's a big stretch for me as an introvert. It's not easy for me to enter a room especially by myself. Like there was a time where I would always bring a team member with me just as like a crutch but I've really challenged myself especially over the last year and it's, I get the chills every time I walk in. There's that immediate like what if I don't know anybody? What will they think of me? Like I'm human, we're all human. Will I connect? But then when you rip that aside and say that's not the point. The point is to go in shine bright, be a light and hopefully by being a light I ignite the light in others. It has inevitably been one of the greatest experiences. So I think there's that piece to that. What else like from a a career, business, founder experience would you say would be a stretchy thing for people to do to get the chills? Well, I'll give you a really easy hack into getting the chills. Music. Yes. Is one of the fastest ways in, it's a super easy hack because we all have our like, our song and we all have songs for different things. You know, am I working out? What's my power workout song? You know, what's my, I'm running a marathon and I need something to get me past mile 24. That's a different song. You know, I need to be confident at a business dinner. That's a different song, and it doesn't have to make sense to anybody. Like my power song does not have to make any sense to you. There's one song that like the words don't necessarily mean anything but the bridge just has this, ebb and flow and sway and I just mmm like into it. I'm just like immediate in, immediate in. So it's finding your immediate ins. Music being one of them. Because that's something that's super easy to just pop you into a moment and go. And go. I do use music and I'm a musician, so I wasn't an actor. My art form was through music. So I really understand that and get that. There's times I just need a good cry and I know the song. I know the song. It's going to get me every time. And you think by now, but it still has the effect. So I love that. So you're actually teaching these anchors and clues and cues. And then another thing about being unforgettable is taking that and moving it forward into the rooms, into the situations, into the conversations that you're having. Someone like myself that tends to be shy, that tends to be introverted. I listen to my song. I'm pumped up in the car. I open that door. I'm about to open the door of the event and immediately my heart sinks. It's fluttering. What other anchor could I have at that time to help me become unforgettable and to remind me that I'm in the zone of chasing the chill? Honestly, if it's at the point where you're opening the door. Some kind of shake-off. Body movement. I am somebody who can't, like, I can sit and meditate, but like, if I'm amped or nervous or butterflies or anything, like, you tell me to sit still and breathe, and I'm like, I would rather die. Like, let's just be honest. But I am a moving meditation person. And just move, animalistic, primal, whatever you got to do that just, it's getting that extra out. And I feel like, because you're now no longer trying to be like, stuff it down, stuff it down, like hide it, you know. It's letting it, giving it its place to be like, okay, just get it out, get it out, get it out. Go. Yeah. I feel like that's a really good moment, like right as the camera's like about to roll. You've got no time. You've got to just move and like shake it out of your body. Yes. And you know, another thing that works really well for me that I found, because I don't know if that would be innate for me, is feeling my feet on the ground. Yes. So I'll stand for a minute and just like literally feel my feet on the ground and go, I am safe, I am grounded. And there's gorgeous women who all feel the same as I do because we're, as much as we like to think we're all so different, we are more alike than we are different. And that's just such a phenomenon, especially with the online space with everything looking so beautiful. And I love all the beautiful, but I think we need to remember at the core, we're all thinking, feeling the same thing. Maybe not sitting in it as long as we used to. Maybe there's some of us who have sort of gone past the point of it being crippling to us. But we still have all those same feelings. And so when you enter and I feel my feet on the ground, it's like I'm grounded. I am here. I am present. Look up, shine, smile. And that to me is medicine for women. I find women who smile at one another. You did that when I met you. We locked eyes. We had a smile. Instant connection. Is that the type of thing you're talking about in this book as well? Yes. Yeah, I actually talk about anchor like using all five senses. Okay, walk me through that. Yeah, just like you would set a scene, like if we're going to do a scene, you know, where we're sitting, we could be sitting very differently depending on the environment around us. So, you know, are we sitting, but it's snowing outside? Is there a crackling fire? Can we hear it? You know, is it, you know, the tropics? So we've got our little martinis and little bikinis. You know, the more you put around you or the more you notice in your environment, you know, like you said, you can feel your feet on the floor. What can you smell? Can you taste? What can you touch? What can you see? The more you pull those pieces in, the more it grounds you in the present moment or in the imagined moment you need to be in. Because the more real I need to make the environment around me, the more I have to be able to see, taste, touch, feel, you know, I'm on a cliffside of a mountain three feet in snow. Somebody's gonna die and there's a werewolf coming. You know we have to instantly get into that place believably like I have to let it sit in my body, not just name it. I have to feel it, I have to smell it. You know, I can smell the burned flesh, I can smell you know the werewolf breathing down my neck, you know whatever. I can taste metallic tang of blood in my mouth you know it is. Like, you just your body starts to like pull on to these and it starts working because your body your mind is powerful, so use it. It's too like for somebody listening to this that maybe has never acted or is thinking like how can I do this in my own life and my own experiences this is very much teaching of becoming the version of yourself you desire to be. So as you're speaking, what came down for me, because I don't know if I could think of a werewolf. Maybe I could. I'd have to practice, but what I did think is like I could turn this into I'm worried about what people think of me. Am I going to impress people? Am I going to connect with someone? Like these are the fears. Chasing the chill is knowing on the other side of this is very likely that I will, so go in that room and do the thing. But I can walk in the room and borrow some confidence from the future version of myself. Five years from now, if I walked in this room, how would I walk in? Or if I knew everybody in this room, how would I walk in? So that embodiment and the practice of not necessarily being who I am and like as I am in this moment, but calling in that inner wisdom, calling in that future version, that's done me very well. And that's not faking it. It's actually an invitation. And once you taste her and experience her, it's actually hard to go back. I found those have been life-changing moments for me. Yes, absolutely. When you can step fully in, I think it's where you talk about something aligns. You get those goosebumps and it feels right. And you're like, this is who I am. So I'm going to keep chasing that chill. I'm going to keep chasing that through line until I get her. You know, she illuminates from the future and gives us that path to follow. So becoming unforgettable, there's a good unforgettable and not so good unforgettable. And I'm thinking of reputation, right? Our first impressions, how people remember us. That feels like a really big responsibility. I'm not going to lie. In my life, I know I haven't done it perfectly, nor will I ever do it perfectly. But that feels like every time, even before you came in the room, I sit in the responsibility of holding space, of asking great questions, of developing the conversation, of learning about you so that this moment becomes unforgettable for you. But I also know that it can go where we do things that make us unforgettable, but not for the things that we would really want or desire. Yes. So, how does someone who maybe isn't the practice, maybe she's new in her career. Maybe she's new as a business owner. Maybe she's new in a community. How does she hold herself accountable to being unforgettable for the right parts of her? Are there things she could do? Yeah, that's such a great question. Because I think we all have, we're human. We all have those moments. Like, I'm sure there's people in my life that are like, yep, unforgettable for the wrong reason. We all have that for sure. Yeah yeah, but I mean I think,

it comes down to: 30:36

do the homework, do your your prep drills, you know find your mantra. Whether it's chase the chills or whatever your mantra is, you know whatever your code word is, your power word ,your power song, you know do your homework, just like an actor has to know their lines, you have to know the blocking, you have to have like everything perfect hair, makeup, outfit. But then when the camera rolls it's time to open that door and walk in, shake hands, you have to let it go. You have to let it go, you have to trust that it's there. You've done the work, it's in your body, you have to let it go so the magic can happen. So what I hear from that, and correct me if I'm wrong, there's practice, but don't get stuck in the practice. Yes. Practice and then move and action those things. You know, walk in the room, shake the hand, introduce yourself. Maybe it's even showing up online face to camera, doing a video, right? We can practice and delete, delete, delete a thousand times, but it's just actually putting it up that one time. I remember not so long ago, I had something in my teeth and I was in my stories, and I was going to delete it. And I thought there's something in me that just don't. Just show you're human and you've got something stuck in your teeth. The amount of DMs I got from that one story. And I'm like, I have brilliant things to say on a daily basis. But the fact that I had something in my teeth, what it taught me was nobody's expecting me to be perfect. Nobody's expecting me to be polished all the time. And people are actually charmed by the human side of us. People are inspired by watching us put that effort out and going for things. They're not inspired when we're sitting in the background practicing over and over and over again, you know, waiting for the opportune moment. Is that how you teach it? Absolutely. It's presence over polish all day long. Presence over polish. All day long, especially in the age of AI where we can polish up anything. Yeah, it's true. And it's not don't polish. You know, it's not that polish is bad. Polish is great. But you have to, when it comes down to it, be able to let the presence come through. Let the real you come through. And there's always a take two. You know, and you just have to kind of trust in the moment that, hey, if I say the wrong thing at the wrong time, you know, it was meant to be. You know, if we weren't meant to be connected, we wouldn't be connected. No. And we just have to trust that that was right for that moment. So it's this kind of just weird trusting, like it's hard to do. Like even as a professional actor, I mean, that's one of the hardest things we have to do is, okay, make sure you hit the mark. Make sure you have the lines. Make sure, okay, and forget all that and just go. And you're like, okay. I mean, it's very conscious letting go. It's not like, oh, pie in the sky. I can just toss it behind me. It's an active letting go. Active trust, too. I'm sensing from what you're sharing from the acting experience. There's a couple things that are coming through. Trust is definitely one of them. You've practiced. You've envisioned it. You've shown up. Everything is ready, set, go. But you have to trust that you've done enough to go. And if not, there's a take two. An act two. Yes. So I love that lesson. I also love the idea of someone being willing to go before they're ready. I think we wait for the readiness and that's coming through a lot in what you're sharing. We wait to feel ready, but the readiness comes from the doing, from the act, because then you're going to learn, right? Why are you laughing? Is that like something you say? Well, I sat down to write book one and I was like, oh, but I have this. No, that's book two. And I'm like, oh, can't be two books. It's got to be three. I was like, what's book three about? I think it's jump. Jump before you're ready or you'll never be ready. Yeah. So that's why I'm laughing. I'm like, oh, yeah, there you go. There's a chase of chills moment for you. Yeah. Because what's coming through and what I really hope people are seeing and hearing from you is not to take everything so seriously. Is to forgive fast when we've done something maybe that we wish we hadn't. My biggest lessons and my biggest teachers have been the hard, not the success, not the easy moments. Those were not those moments that chiseled me. What chiseled me was when I went, I can't believe I said that. Like, where did that even come from? That doesn't even feel like it's me, but it's obviously because it came out of my mouth. What do I need to look at? Or I didn't really treat that person the way I wish I had. I wish I had spent more time or consideration. Those are preparation. That's come up for me too, that disappointment. And like, I didn't prepare. I didn't learn the lines. I didn't review. I didn't contemplate enough. I kind of winged it. And it's like, oh, shucks. I wish I had done more preparation because it deserved that. Those are those moments not to try to avoid because they create us into the most special version, the one that builds trust. Because we're like, well, that sucked, but you know what? I'm okay. That is your best fuel. If you can take it, not wallow in it or get stuck on, oh, I'm so awful. I can't believe I did that. I mean, sit in it for a second so you have it so you don't do it again. You know, use it as fuel. Like you said, your most potent things come from the bad. The best acting lessons, the one that have stuck out the most is when I have failed spectacularly. And they're like, wow, can you act? And you're like, I think so. I don't know. Maybe not. But those have made me into, yeah, oh, I didn't know my blocking. I have to pay attention. Or I didn't understand what you said. Because, I mean, this happens. There's so much stuff going on that I'm like, if I am not crystal clear in talking with a director. Can you explain that in a different way? I'm not getting, like being able to voice so that I can. Like you learn the best stuff if you can use it as fuel and you can metabolize it so it doesn't live in your system. And I think that's the hard part. And the work in those hard moments is just letting it, you know, metabolizing it, use it, but let it go so it doesn't just sit in there and fester. That's been one of my biggest journeys in my lifetime is self-forgiveness. You see, I always thought forgiveness was about forgiving somebody else. And I had to learn through a lot of therapy that a lot of times it was never about that other person. It was always about forgiving myself. And that has been one of the most liberating, it's making me choked up a little bit. One of the most liberating things in my life is realizing even if somebody feels like someone has done me wrong, there's still a level of personal forgiveness in that because either I allowed that to happen, I taught them that that was acceptable for me, or I didn't speak up in that moment and say that isn't acceptable for me. I love looking in the mirror. I love being personally responsible for my life, for my actions, for my interactions. And I'm really sensing for you that is something you not only have practiced, but is a part of your design. Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's very much like everything we use from acting is analyzing the micro. Analyzing the micro moments of, you know, this didn't feel good and whether, you know, I attracted it from the other person or not even just the other person. If you just analyze, because the only person I'm responsible for and can control, is myself and maybe not on some days. But, you know, like that's the only person I have control over. So I look at, okay, why was my initial reaction shame to this? Why was my initial reaction anger, you know, and just finding kind of those threads. And that's the thing, you can use everything. You know, acting is obviously an easy one because I can use everything for acting. But notice what you can use in your real life. You know, when you're coaching, if you're like, I can, I felt that before, like being able to like nobody wants to go learn from somebody that's never done that thing. I agree. I agree. You know, and that's the thing. I talk with people a lot. They're like, well, I feel like I'm going through this. How could I teach it? I'm like, that's exactly who I want to learn it from. I don't want to learn acting from somebody who's never acted in their life. I'm going, why would I take lessons from you, you know? So, I mean, but that's the thing is just going, you can use everything in your life. Like, life is giving you a smorgasbord of emotions, of situations, of people. I mean, go to an airport and watch people. Oh, it's fascinating. You know, so just start using everything, finding, you know, just, you know, file it away for, oh, that's interesting. I can use that later. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So powerful because this, what I'm learning from you, and I would love you just to give us, like, as we kind of wind up the conversation, I'd love you just, and you can think about this as I'm kind of summarizing, like, three ways we could be much more radical in pursuing ourselves, our dreams. Like I'm thinking and when I asked that question what came up for me in this conversation was the fact that you didn't move. And you regretted. And so you made a decision at 11 years old. Like, that's little. I have an 11-year-old at home. You know, he's wise and smart, but it's still young. But you made that decision enough that four years later, you're at a pool and you knew the only thing I have to do is just to keep putting one foot in front of the other. I just need to keep moving because if I stop, I'll talk myself out of this experience. So that was very powerful for me. The other thing that I really, really loved was you were talking about like feeling emotions, but not wallowing in emotions. So talking through the lens of acting, you know, you're in this very intense moment, losing a spouse or a partner, you have to be able to let that metabolize move through you so that you can show up and do the next thing or maybe do that again. So I loved that because as women, and this isn't a popular statement, so I know that, but it comes from so much love and sometimes we have to hear hard things. I think as women, we create so many micro dramas around things. We add so much unnecessary emotion. We linger in emotion, sometimes a little bit too long. It is our superpower. So I do not want anyone to move away from their emotion, but we do have to learn how to lead it better. Especially in leadership roles, so I loved that lesson from you. And then the other thing that I really really appreciated was to be sensory. And when we're sensory we notice things, we notice people, we connect more. It's almost like we take a kodak moment, you know? We're like, "click click". We took a moment. We remember the smell, the taste, the scenery, so I love that because that's something that very much reigns true in my life. Like I'm always thinking of the sensory. Yes. Right. Sensory everything. So I really appreciate those. Those were big lessons for me. Is there something else you would add that we've talked about? I mean, chasing the chill, I really like too, but is there something else you would add based on your book coming out and your lived experience that you would love the listeners to leave with? Well, the thing that came out is when you did this, I actually call something the snapshot moment. Okay. And this is actually how I won my acting award. Oh, tell me. In a visualization, the more potent you can make the visualization, obviously, the better. Use all five senses, just like we talked about with the scene. Really spend the time to set the scene with all five of those senses. Oh, I like that. Because you want to, and this is the thing. So for me, using the award, it wasn't me getting the award on stage. It was me a week later coming down to my dream kitchen and getting my coffee. I'm just sitting there and I look over and there's the trophy that's getting hit with a sunbeam of light. And you know how the light scatters and you see the little bokeh of like the dust particles? Yeah. That was the moment that gave me the chills. So what I want you to do is get the most potent version of your dream or your visualization and find that most visceral part. Again, it doesn't have to make sense to anybody. It needs to be beyond it. So I had already won the award. It wasn't like I didn't know I was going to, like it was already there. I'd already done it. And it was that moment of the sunbeams. And I snapshotted it in my mind. And you just have to put in the work one time if you can get that goosebump moment from it. And you can just pull up that snapshot really fast and just sit in that. And that would be a fast way. And right before you open the door, bokeh. Boom. Music, I like snapshot moments. I call them Kodak moments. It's so funny. I love that we have that together. And it's interesting because when you were sharing that, so I hope everybody listening to you understands the way you describe things is a bit of an art as well. So you were describing that, and I don't even know what your trophy looks like, but I could see it. I could see the light. I could see the flicker. I could see you with your coffee with a smile on your face. So that's the beauty of not only being that in your life, but also teaching that through the work that you do. You're reminding people to not be in the mundane, to not participate in the cult of average, to not just, like flop through their days, but instead make as many special memories and moments as you possibly can. Be highly, highly intentional. And when you have a moment to pause and savour and slurp it up. And those are the moments that carry you forward and remind you of who you are. Yeah. When I have that moment before I go into an event and I'm like, oh my gosh. So I really appreciated that. Love. Yeah. I mean, we're not here for a long time. So we might as well make it magical. Yes, we should. Make it fun. Get all you can out of life. Bring full aliveness, play full out. End of sentence. Mic drop. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me.